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Article: 980
Date: 2006-06-12 20:26:48 -0400
Subject: Re: Outbound milter-limit queue files

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Mr. Howe, 

Thanks very much for the response. I'll try and answer the following parts, but
for now, I'm at home and can't recall some of the stuff.

Quoting Anthony Howe <achowe@snert.com>:

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> --------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Campbell wrote:
> > I am running milter-limit on the sending server. In other words, the 
> > outbound side of the SMTP connection. How will the response, a 
> > temp-fail, affect the sending of the messages that are throttled? This 
> > will be a list server, and I want to throttle the outbound messages. So, 
> > will the list server see these as non-delivered mail, or will the mail 
> > be queued in the incoming or outgoing queues for later delivery? It is a 
> > Mailman list server, and I don't want people to start getting blocked 
> > due to some sort of bounce/not-delivered threshold.
> > 
> > I have tried testing this myself for an answer, but have not seen 
> > maillog entries for the failures or been able to find the queue files.
> You probably have in your access.db:
> 	Connect:			RELAY

I'm fairly certain that, unless the default sendmail MTA config statement is
equivalent to the above, that this is not in the access.db. The server does feed
mail to the local sendmail server, so somewhere it is allowed. But other domains
can use this as a relay server also. I think I just removed the localhost or part of the default MTA=localhost or whatever the default RH mc file uses.
> This is treated a white-list entry in the milter. To do what you want, 
> you'll probably need to by-pass the general white-list entry with:
> 	milter-limit-connect:		SKIP

I doubt that this is "not" working, as I have set myself up to a limit of 3/10
minutes and sent 3 messages to another of my addresses, and it did follow the
rule by sending the first 2 and waiting about 10 minutes to send the third. So I
have to assume the localhost setting is not coming into play.
> Depending on how the mailing list messages are introduced into the mail 
> system, the messages that exceed the limit should be queued for later 
> retries by sendmail. I can't say with any certainty, since I've never 
> used Mailman nor tried this case since the common assumption is to 
> always white list internal messages of the host.

The mail list software, Mailman, is running on the same server as sendmail. I'm
also pretty sure it injects messages using SMTP. I'll check tomorrow for sure,
but I seem to recall viewing the progress through the logs of the 3 emails
mentioned above. Mailman uses a script to pipe the mail into the system defined
in the alias file, and then sends to sendmail.
> I think to answer better requires further clarification of how your mail 
> system is setup and the flow of mail through it. Do you have several 
> systems feeding the list server? Or is all-in-one system. The former 
> should be easy to handle, while the latter is unclear.

The server is a generic sendmail 8.12 Tao server. It's main purpose is to handle
the IMAP Horde/Imp webmail stuff, but also acts as a tertiary MX for a few
domains. It's load is very light, so I stuck Mailman on it as a replacement for
12-All, which is not performing as promised. I used the IMP stuff to send the 3
emails to test with. Mailman might throw a curve with those alias scripts, but I
don't think it will based on what I've seen. The Mailman config option is an
SMTP based option.

I plan on making a list server that just runs Mailman, as an end result. The
purpose of milter-limit is to throttle the output so as not to suck up all of
the bandwidth I have as it pumps out the thousands of emails (all to subscribed
recipients - I'm not a spammer).

Anyway, this is more of a "what does sendmail do when it receives it's own
temporary failure" (from milter-limit) type of a question. I don't think I ever
considered a situation like this, but know there are some options in sendmail to
do something like this. The obvious thing would be put the emails in the output
queue and wait until the condition clears,  to send out the remaining emails,
but this didn't seem to be the case. I'm now wondering, though, where
milter-limit takes over the transaction. And will Mailman see these as real

I should probably set up a little more complex test, and see how it goes. Maybe
the simple stuff wasn't hard enough for sendmail, Mailman, or milter-limit,
although I don't see how it would matter. If you have anything to add, I
certainly respect your knowledge of the matter. I'll also throw this at the
Mailman list to see if they can shed some light on what might occur.

Thanks for the time and tolerating my breezy discussion. 

> -- 
> Anthony C Howe          Skype: SirWumpus                    SnertSoft
> +33 6 11 89 73 78         AIM: SirWumpus    Sendmail Milter Solutions
> http://www.snert.com/     ICQ:
7116561      http://www.snertsoft.com/

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