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Article: 440
From: Christian 'CBE' Benner
Date: 2005-04-01 04:30:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Disclaimer Milter

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> Well then the law outlaws email in general then since every 
> mail server 
> the message crosses during transit will modify the message headers by 
> adding a Received: header and the final destination also adds a 
> Return-Path: header, which by your outline of the law would make mail 
> servers, RFC 2821 and 2822 illegal.
The law only describes that you can't change the body 
not the headers. You're allowed to mark Headers with a tag like "[SPAM]"
but not to suppress or reject a message.

> > We have some "funny" laws here in germany.
> > You must act against spm but you can't supress
> > a message with SPAM. It must be passed trough.
> Now how are you to act against spam if you can't suppress it 
> or modify 
> the message in some way to identify it to the end user? Thats like 
> saying you can have electricity, but your are not allowed to 
> turn on the 
> lights. Or an even better analogy would be: you are given 
> running water, 
> but you're not allowed to turn off the faucet.

I'm with you but sending spam is illegal. So (I believe)
the politicians thinkin' if it is forbidden there's no solution needed
'cause there's no reason. In other words you don't need a law which
allows you tho supress or reject messages which you "can't" receive
they're not allowed. But today I've received a internal paper from EU
parliament which includes a new sub paragraph which allows also
and rejecting if you're (ISP's) sure that the mail is unwanted by
(That's in my opinion also stupid 'cause who decides on ISP side which
mail is wanted or unwanted on reciepients side ?

Sorry for my saying but some politicians don't know what they're talkin'
about and each solution they're written to stop such 'illegal' spam
and virusmails within last months is BULLSHIT.
> > But I hope with next session of politicians 
> > working on TKG and 823 paragraphs they'll change
> > it to allow rejecting such messages.
> Just submit every politician's email address to every 
> newsgroup you can 
> find and sooner or later they should see WHY they want to reject such 
> tripe as spam.

I can't 'cause it is illegal to send eMail addresses into groups
or other public spaces. (That's also a stupid law...)
Everybody can search by itself for such addresses but it is not allowed
to catch all well known addresses for making it "public" even if they're
allready public.... Same as above...BULL...

> > It is also funny on virus mails.
> > You must pass it trough. The only way for an ISP
> > is to let all customers sign a letter which describes
> > that the customer wishes not to receive such mails and
> > he is allowing you to block/reject.
> Sounds like a lot of unnecessary jumping through hoops to provide a 
> service that is becoming more and more necessary.

Yep, that's it.

> I bet though that they will allow the filtering of P2P 
> software to block 
> copyrighted material.

That's right. In some counties of Germany ISPs received in the last two
or three years an official statement which decides to block some pages
from other countries, to block DNS querries to such sites AND to block
some services from local government (local department of justice).

We've received last year from LDOJ Hamburg a letter which said we've to
special ports to a known P2P network 'cause activities on that network
are only for exchanging illegal material.
(It's the same process like in United Staates right now) but we've won
battle in that case 'cause such a network (P2P software) is also usable
to exchange
copyright free material.

> That would be just a wonderful 
> contradiction: you 
> can filter and block things of value from being traded like people's 
> intellectual property, but you cannot filter things of zero value.


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